Get Access, Support Midair!




Get Access, Support Midair!

Are the air movement controls pretty much done?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by silverphish, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. silverphish

    silverphish Instant Access

    The movement controls in this game will be it's death if they don't improve. Listening to most of the posters it seems like everyone else is happy with it, so I'm assuming that it will always be this crunky. Let me just leave some points that have been on my mind regarding this.

    1) It makes no sense. Nobody would intentionally design a propulsion system where the goal is to have any and all combinations of thrusters equal X total thrust. If one thruster robs power from others, it is broken. It would make more sense to simply have the fuel get used faster when more thrusters are on.

    2) Games should be easy to play but hard to master. This game is hard to play. People want to jump in and start shooting and having fun, but instead they find a massive learning curve for just being able to move where they want. As long as this remains true, Midair will never be more than a passing niche.

    3) It feels old. Not as in cool retro nostalgia old, but as in crusty limiting technology old. As in, "Why don't we add CTF to Lunar Lander?!" The game should be primarily about shooting skill and tactical skill. Not about trying to make a jalopy drive where you want it.

    4) It turns skirmishes into walkabouts. Doing a 1 v 1 is repeatedly up then over then land then walkabout, up then over then land then walkabout. There is little in the way of air to air nuance because changing directions just makes you fall like a fat squirrel.

    I expect this post to be overwhelmed by people telling me that the movement is perfect. Still, I spent hundreds on the Kickstarter, and I sincerely hope this changes. If it doesn't, I won't be playing it, and I think this issue is going to alienate the vast majority of potential new players.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    yami, T1tan, Homingun and 3 others like this.
  2. Jon_Osc

    Jon_Osc Koala Tea Azure Rinse Staff Member

    I would guess there is a reasonable chance that some additional tweaking is going into the air controls. That said, I'm one of those guys who loves the air control as it is right now. I totally get that it's not intuitive at first and potentially punishing for newcomers. Now that I'm used to it, it just makes so much sense and offers a lot of flexibility/is vastly preferable to what TA had to offer.

    One thing I would like to see that would make the controls feel a lot better: A stronger jump. The current initial upward thrust from a jump+jet is pretty medium, and straight up bad if you're holding W. This leads to players struggling to climb bases, flag stands, hills, etc. Some of the pro t1 guys have been asking for stronger jumps/initial thrust too so I think it'll be a welcome change from most of the community.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  3. IcedWinds

    IcedWinds Private Tester

    Step 1. Remove hand from keyboard. Step 2. Only press the keys you absolutely have to. Do simple manouvers with 1-2 keys used. If you need to dodge use the same idea, just need timing. I promise you it gets better. The learning curve is steep, there's no doubt about that, but it's worth the time spent feeling clunky.
  4. silverphish

    silverphish Instant Access

    Moving side to side should not make me drop out of the sky when I still have plenty of fuel left. It's not about the position of my fingers. It's about the functioning of the thrust system.
    yami and JayCakez like this.
  5. slush

    slush Private Tester

    If your coming from T:A you will need to adjust accordingly at this time.
  6. miri

    miri Instant Access

    It doesn't though. It sounds like you're holding W+A/D, that's probably the issue. It's weird because the vast majority of the playerbase think there is way too much air control, but you're the second person I've seen saying the opposite. Holding down W + A or D definitely saps your energy way more though and, while I agree it feels counter intuitive and unnatural it's probably what's causing this issue for you.
    MastroLindo and modsec like this.
  7. IcedWinds

    IcedWinds Private Tester

    Reason I mention your fingers is because pressing too many keys will ruin you. The movement is simple, if you want to go left, you press left then jet (nothing else needs to be pressed) after that you maintain control. The jets are strong, subtle movements are all you need. Basically.. don't try to do too much at once
    Nexjen89, Whitewhale and The Weirdo like this.
  8. The Weirdo

    The Weirdo Instant Access

    His impression will range from very to extremely common on release though. It's one reason I'd like to err on the side of directional jetting being too strong than too weak. Right now the system is powerful and flexible. Even though it may take an effort to learn, there is a big payoff in terms of the control that you rapidly uncover. If possible, let's not diminish that payoff.
  9. silverphish

    silverphish Instant Access

    It doesn't? jet up, then hit left, then let go of left and hit right. You will be on the ground with fuel to spare. W has nothing to do with it.
    Homingun and JayCakez like this.
  10. Gorthaur

    Gorthaur Instant Access

    Would we solve two problems by making the directional jets less powerful in their direction and more powerful upwards? This would make dodging midairs in duels is less easy and gaining and maintaining altitude while using directional jets easier.

    Was carving (getting free direction changes while skiing) ever tried? I wonder if it would completely destroy the balance of the movement system. Skiing is already so fast and powerful that getting free movement would probably make it too good and people would want to stay on the ground even more.
    Rooster128 and silverphish like this.
  11. The Weirdo

    The Weirdo Instant Access

    (I believe) Mabel confirmed that there is a larger upward component when directionallly jetting along your direction of travel (depending on speed) than there is when jetting perpindicular to it. Rapid changes in direction are enabled, while ensuring that people can't accelerate ever faster in a forward direction on flat ground. To me it seems elegant and makes movement more interesting.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  12. Whitewhale

    Whitewhale Instant Access

    Drop when u strafe in midair ?

    Didn't happen to me , hard to know what's happening , your experience doesn't mirror mine
    ellbee likes this.
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Community Manager Staff Member

    Hi, appreciate the feedback, Midair is pre-alpha and everything will change in some way or another. So, if you could elaborate on ways you would like to see things change or improve (from your point of view) rather than just sharing your thoughts, that would be immensely helpful. Thanks! :)
  14. MastroLindo

    MastroLindo Instant Access

    there are games that are designed to immediately make you feel in control and comfortable, and there are games that are designed to make you learn their way.

    If you are used only to call of duty and start playing counterstrike you could rant that the shooting mechanism sucks because it is too easy to die and to difficult to aim.
    Even worse if you go play arma3.

    If you play rocket league, a game that actually has several similarities to midair in more than one aspect (highly competitive, very skill based, high skill ceiling, team oriented) , you will see that before you can actually move where you intended to and do aerial shots consistently it will take several days of practice. But that's not frustrating, that's FUN. That's what makes your first aerials so special, they make you scream the first times you actually make a backflip goal, and in general give you a lot of sense of accomplishment while you realize you are getting better.
    And at the end you become one with the car, the movement gets bound to your muscle memory and you dont even think anymore when or how to jump, you just follow your insticts and you do what you intend to, Everything, after several hours of practice, becomes natural.

    Tribes and its spiritual sequel midair have in their DNA this long learning/high rewarding learning curve. What at first seems unnatural and frustrating becomes cool and exciting once you master it.
    It's just a matter to
    • have the right attittude
    • give new players the right environment and helps to thrive (matchmaking, tutorials, training exercises and challenges, tutors, gradual introduction to the game,etc)
    The fact that a game needs to be easy or have a very low learning curve in order to be popular it's a myth that only bad designers follow. Out there it's full of example of extremely popular games that are super difficult to learn and yet incredibly popular (dota2, csgo, rocketleague, darkSouls, etc).
    You dont need to make the game easy to make it popular. You need to make those learning hours fun and rewarding with the things I mentioned above. If something is easy it might feel natural at first, but it can get very boring soon. If something is difficult and you manage to learn it and master it it gives you so much more satisfaction. The whole darksoul series is based on this concept, and I don't think it's that unpopular.
    And if you really just like casual&easy experiences where after 20mins of play you can already understand everything then maybe midair is not a game for you. But however you change it/tweak it, it is just not going to work for you.

    I don't know your history and I don't know why you don't like the movement so far. I don't know if you played a previous tribes game like ascend and you don't like midair because it is different, or if it is your first tribes experience.
    All I can say is that if you trust me and all the others here that have mastered it because it a better system for the game.
    Try to learn with the right attitude you will reach the point where every movement will feel natural and you will actually love how it works.
    And me and I am sure many others are even available and willing to help you, going in a server together, do some practice sessions together and see if there's something that you need to change in order to get a better feeling for it.
    Whenever you want I am available, and so are many others.

    Just please, have an open minded about it. Balancing the game specifically for new players is something both T;V and T:A tried to do and resulted in total disaster, it's just not the right way to go or you remove what made tribes attractive to people in the first place. We just need a good supportive community and all the help new players can get, but not through changes in the gameplay if there are no other reasons for it.
    Rooster128 likes this.
  15. Marv

    Marv Instant Access

    I've also seen guys who started in TA have no trouble tearing it up. Any tribes game is going to be hard for a newcomer to the genre, but still can't really see any more here than a frustration at adjusting from TA-paradigm controls.

    Just to be clear: I get that you have a different opinion on air control etc, and naturally that's valid. But I (along with many others I assume) am not convinced the current system is unintuitive or makes the game "harder".
  16. SoundGuy

    SoundGuy Private Tester

    The movement and air control will be VERY hard for new players to Tribes (Players that have NEVER played any version of Tribes before).

    May I suggest what I did....
    I went into empty servers and ski'd around in spawn (NO E-Pack)
    I did this over and over until I was able to ski around w/o stopping/walking.
    It didn't take long.
    I think you will find it "intuitive" (Seems to be the word used).
    Like Mabel said, ONLY press where you want to go (WASD).
    YES it's different than past versions, but once you get used to it, it becomes "Intuitive".

    I think once you get the hang of this "new" movement mechanic you will have feedback to help make it better (If needed)

    This (Movement/Air Control) WILL separate the Good players from the "new/bad" players.
    I see this having the TA negative affect.
    Meaning because the movement is so hard (NOT that TA movement was hard) for new players we will see them gravitate to the base and farming (NON LT Servers).
    Is this good or bad? That's for the DEVs to decide by us giving this feedback.

    I deff don't want it to be like TA was.
    Cappers speed so High that you have to put stupid Band-Aid fixes.
    I think it's VERY close.
    Props to the PTers and DEVs

    As Jordan said.....
    shazb3d likes this.
  17. XU1

    XU1 Instant Access

    I find the controls pretty easy. But I played t1 so I can't really comment for the new guys.

    Maybe make a video of yourself skiing around on a map? Do some laps on the map, try some of your own cap routes, etc and we can see what you're doing wrong.

    We will help you :)

    I think once you nail the controls, and practice with it for a few days, you'll be loving it!
    MastroLindo and slush like this.
  18. Rooster128

    Rooster128 Instant Access

    Intuition is definitely something to keep in mind with games like this. You experience the feeling of cratering just due to gravity and being out of jets- but the jets are being used up in a linear fashion (which is good IMO). Vectoring in games like Tribes have always been profundo important. But it's not always obvious.

    The way I've suggested doing this in the past (and I've done in my own projects) is to have a physical representation of vertical and horizontal thrusters on the jetpack. That, plus the addition of a third person camera, and also possibly sound effects emitting from the exact location of those thrusters, would all tie in to the overall feel of the jet system. New players would get the hang of jetting faster when they see a physical representation on their screen of what they are actually doing.

    Hope the devs keep this in mind. <3
    MastroLindo and SeymourGore like this.
  19. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore #1 Stinkiest NA

    I'm totally expecting OP to have an 'Aha!' moment when movement finally kicks in and he loves it (which I've seen a couple of times on these forums and experienced it myself). With that said, a tutorial map that explained the jetpack nuances would go a long way in helping players achieve this moment sooner.

    Yar, totally agree with this bit. Visual representation of 'how' the jets are functioning would help muchos for understanding jetting in Midair.
    T1tan and MastroLindo like this.
  20. MastroLindo

    MastroLindo Instant Access

    Not only a tutorial map, also a few series of challenges like "follow this route across these checkpoints and beat the time" where routes and checkpoints are clearly visible and people can train/compete for the fastest lap.

    Things like the training sessions of rocket league tha tyou can do in-between games where you can just train to specific mechanics in a funny way can really help
    T1tan and Fatima Shabazz like this.