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Feedback Major Issues with design, not gameplay; No players.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Laokin, May 19, 2018.

  1. Laokin

    Laokin New Member

    Locking the vehicles as the last tier of the unlock system is a mistake, I've only seen vehicles in about 4 games I've played since launch. Vehicles cannot be part of the unlock system.

    Throwing 9 unlocks behind the engineer pack; this is the same issue as the vehicles. In other words, there are basically zero deployables in any of the games. The T:A approach that deployables would be linked to a specific "class" is a mistake, and makes the deployable game essentially non-existent.

    There is virtually zero base play in this game, the same as T:A. T1 and T2 had large amounts of base play, this is why they were successful. Spawning in loadouts increases accessibility surely, but destroys the base play. You are short circuiting the entire base to do it. If gens are down, I still don't need an inventory station, I'll just have to wait an extra few seconds to spawn with equipment. This removes pretty much all importance from the generator, as the maps don't have strong base turrets, nobody uses vehicles [because they are stupidly locked], and the only thing left is sensors.

    Because their is no command map like in T1 or T2, you can't really understand the importance of the sensor network, you can't see where your team has physical sensor range coverage and it destroys the entire design behind the sensors.

    The actual gameplay is solid, but you are retreading the same mistakes that Hi-Rez already made, however, your game was supposed to show Hi-Rez what they did wrong -- but keep making all of their same mistakes. I can't even find US games anymore, because people got bored of the 0 depth game design. I'll never spend money to buy the pass on a game with no players, and because the game has no players, I'll never be able to even F2P grind to vehicles.

    This is essentially tribes, the spirit of the entire purpose this game was created was to give us a throw back to Tribes 2, don't ruin it for the same reason Hollywood ruins game movie adaptations. Bring back the targeting laser, get rid of the 0 generator maps, spawning in load outs, and make deployables team shared and NOT a pack; then they will get used. Then you will see people picking the Repair pack and playing as an engineer because the need to repair the network is there, while the entirety of the team places the network, not just the engineer. Bring back the command map. These are all essential parts to the formula.

    Also; the number one complaint that I receive instantly when showing the game to people... "It's got cartoon graphics, it looks worse than Tribes Ascend and that's years and years old already." You wouldn't think in a world where Fortnite is the number one game, that people would have a problem with this, but then again -- it's your target demographic that has a problem with it, not the people who don't play the game. I personally do not mind one way or the other, but people tend to complain about "cartoon graphics" people don't ever tend to complain about non-cartoon graphics. Certainly something to think about.

    As it stands right now, I don't see any point in working on development updates or things like matchmaking when the game is literally dead. If the studio can afford it, you gotta change the things that caused it to be dead and re-launch with more visibility. If not, it's time to pull the plug or release it as open source.

    Been playing FPS+Z games since they exist, played everyone, even Legions. T2 is still the best, T:V did do things that were better [the deployables and skiing] but also did things that were worse, like nerfing the carry limit on armors and making the game really small type arenas and adding the grapple. [While the grapple is incredibly fun, it overpowered rabbiting.]

    We're in the day and age of the modern revival that tries to be as close to the source material as possible. From X Com, to Battletech, to Mechwarrior Online and Mechwarrior 5, over to Battlefield and Star Wars: Battlefront, out of video games and into Movies and Television with Cobra Kai. The reason these are all successful is putting the focus in the right place and giving people new media that doesn't stray from the old media, it's just done with higher production qualities. The mantra stands, don't fix it if it isn't broken.

    Placing the focus of Tribes on "High Speed" and "Small tighter games" and "E-Sports" is the anti-thesis of tribes. Tribes is intended to be a big team game with strategy and depth. Making changes that short circuit the original intentions is precisely the reason why every new attempt fails. Tribes 2 was 32v32 games and some servers 64 v 64 [which is too much IMO] but the idea is not nor has it ever been 7v7, so making a game that scales down to 7v7 as it's sole viable treatment is what causes there to be 0 players. Get back to the actual roots, stop over designing and losing focus of what the game was intended to be; you're out of touch with what made it successful in the first place. Once you have a playerbase you can then start designing a competitive mode for 6's and 7's. Base game first, competition second. Can't have competitors if nobody plays the game.

    What we really need at this point is a Tribes 2 HD Remaster; it's not the game, it's the age of it and it's graphical presentation. Streamlining gameplay and design hurts, streamlining UI is fine.

    Miss the days of the 3 man bomber making passes on critical things like vehicle pads, so the 6 man heavy transport can rain mortar death from above while there are tanks on the ground clearing a way for base infiltrators trying to take down the defense systems so a capper can come in and make a grab. This is tribes, this hasn't been seen since 1998. The focus is all wrong.

    Big maps like Sanctuary, Quagmire, Katabatic; not these tiny little maps with no generators like Dangerous Crossing. Mobile points bases, field inventory systems for tactical retreat, grav cycles to deploy these systems..... This is Tribes;



    Look at all the chaos, shrikes flying around, MPB's, missiles and flares flying everywhere, Lasers and base plasma turrets firing. People in every direction, to note that this was also a scrim between two teams proves that every game since then has been overly simplified, and if you make the game with depth, it can still have competition value, because it did with Tribes 2.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  2. dienasty

    dienasty Member

    'play your way' is a motto thrown out there.. but.. not really the case.
    as a 'new player' , not having the opportunity to try out the whole game (play with all the toys), it might bore some (not enough to do), or others will see people who have DO have access to everything (might see as Pay2Win)

    Tribes had different roles, game types, mods (if there was a 'vehicles' only server where people could just F around w/ vehicles someone might enjoy that) ((dunno if its a little too late now))
    and because you could do so many things in Tribes its hard to please many parts of the community, but that was the fun. I'm not sure if Laokin is talking about T2 base (i assume) / or classic.
    If you wanted to play tribes the way it was originally meant to be played (later Planetside) you could.
    if you wanted to just Duel/DM/ Arena .. you could do that. If you wanted to play C&H they had that. but best of all....
    If you wanted to play in heavy armor when you first fired up the game... you COULD do that.

    Now MA can do whatever they like (because its Tribes inspired... not 'TRIBES" )
    if MA wants to just be LCTF .. then that's all it should be focused on. That's the game. (but because they're are other parts shown, not accessible, the game feels 'meh')
    its not bad, I enjoy it to a degree ( having played tribes, I can hang) but for someone new trying to play vs. farms & Heavy shields when all they have is a blaster (not really.. but feels like it) I can see why their fun level may not bring them back.
    and maybe non paying players should only be able to play on LCTF servers (or warn them entering a regular server)

    I'm assuming MA accomplished what they intended to do with the game (?)... but wondering how they feel about the reception? If they could do something over/different what would they do.
     
    Lights_Chaos likes this.
  3. Wildefyr

    Wildefyr Instant Access

    tbh it's been shown by multiple experienced players, and t2 players like yourself that the developers have absolutely no clue when it comes to designing Base. I wouldn't either, but I never played Base at any point and couldn't care less about it, and certainly wouldn't 'base' my free2play scheme around it.

    LCTF is an insanely solid gamemode and hasn't really been touched on at all since the kickstarter apart from minor incremental fixes that would have also had impacted Base. If the developers were smart they would have continued to develop LCTF, arting and designing more maps, getting it properly balanced and polishing the game around it, primarily because modern team games that have been successful don't have team counts beyond 6v6 for good reason. This would also help with many FPS issues that players have encountered since the launch. Even on my 8700k and 970 I still get frame drops and unstable fps when the player count goes beyond 10 players. Continue to develop base after release, and make it a newbie friendly and clusterfuck mode by all means for people who are interested in that.

    But no, producing content for Base that has fallen flat on it's face is more important. Let's not even throw LCTF players a bone by having a public server primarily FOR LCTF, because we just want to shit on people interested only LCTF more. I've rarely played since in public servers since the launch and even then only TDM for a few minutes, because there is zero opportunity to play LCTF. Having no 'play now' button with choice of gamemode has also been another massive mistake, along with the piss poor UI that has thankfully been shit on in the steam reviews.

    It's no wonder that nearly all the players that have played since kickstarter aren't playing it now, you know the ones who are supposed to be the most dedicated players to your game because they put the most money in to help get the game made?

    I wish the devs all the best, I have no issues with them personally, although I think some censoring on official platforms has occasionally gone too far. My only wish is that they pull their heads out of their asses and listen to what the dedicated LCTF base has been telling them for nearly two years.
     
    SADDAM, SeymourGore, joe and 3 others like this.
  4. IcedWinds

    IcedWinds Private Tester

    I agree with both laokin and wildefyr on many points, and I would love to have both options. The issue that needs to be addressed is what's the quickest, easiest, least risky option. Personally I see mass potential behind LCTF if it was fully supported by the devs and crammed down people's throats . It's simple and easy to understand, yet even so, there's layers upon layers of depth and possibility. Least to say the game feels like it was meant for it. I can't immagine the devs would have a very big task ahead of them if they focused their time on making LCTF the best it could be. After that ,by all means, polish base to be mayhem and destruction.
     
  5. Lights_Chaos

    Lights_Chaos Member

    Everything that isn't lctf feels tacked on and completely ignorable.

    There are a lot of people who would have loved Midair to have a strong base game, myself included. I mean, there's got to be a reason Planetside 2 (which is base-focused) is still kicking with full continents but Tribes:Ascend (which is lctf-focused) is basically dead.

    That being said, I agree with Wildefyr that at this point Archetype should just focus on what Midair was designed around: lctf. Midair has largely failed to grab the attention of base players and to fix it probably would be more work than they could benefit from.
     
    Whitewhale likes this.
  6. LocutusH

    LocutusH New Member

    I agree with op.
    Meaningless base structures, useless vehicles, and a very annoying unlock system.
    This is what midair is right now.
    Even tough i unlocked all engineer things now, the game isnt getting more fun. Only close range defenses, and only good for base defense, wich is useless, since the base with the generators and inventorys doesnt change anything if destroyed.
     
  7. Whitewhale

    Whitewhale Instant Access

    Wildfyr is spot on

    It’s obvious that base is not well understood by this team , not what appeals about base and tribes in general

    LTCF works reasonably well in midair while base doesn’t , sux to be the lctf players getting shoehorned into a poorly balanced and uninspired base game

    Too late really, should have listened
     
    Stuby and Lights_Chaos like this.
  8. Pumpelche

    Pumpelche Instant Access

    Interesting...
     
  9. Nark

    Nark Instant Access

    Tribes: Ascend is not LT-focused lmao. Have any of you people who spout this ever actually played that game?

    No, having spawn in loadout does not equal Light Tribes. T:A died because of extreme mismanagement by HiRez, abandonment after abandonment with them coming back and putting out misguided patches to a community they haven't had contact with in years. It did not die because it wasn't le hardcore base rape gen camper heavy video game.
     
  10. Lights_Chaos

    Lights_Chaos Member

    Compared to Planetside 2 it most definitely is, and from what I understand about T:1 and T:2, T:A is more LT focused than those are as well. So regardless of whether or not T:A is actually LT focused, my point still stands.

    We can all agree though that T:A was mismanaged, but many in the Planetside 2 community would say the same thing about that game.
     
  11. Nark

    Nark Instant Access

    Do you even know what LT is?
     
  12. Lights_Chaos

    Lights_Chaos Member

    LT is playing with nothing but flag offense and defense to worry about (i.e, no gen, base assets, or vehicles) and doing so with a very limited or identical sets of armor and weapons. If I'm wrong, please let me know how, exactly, instead of beating around the bush.

    I by no means think that T:A is the definition of LT. Clearly it isn't. But in comparison it is more LT focused than other titles.
     
  13. Whitewhale

    Whitewhale Instant Access

    I think the comparison to LT holds a little water in that TA was spawn , play straight away and very flag centric

    Bit different in the whole heavies mediums snipers vechiles and deployables though ;)

    Gen/base play should have been dropped in TA and for midair as well , do it the whole way or not at all

    LT with heavies and grav cycles pls
     
    SADDAM and Lights_Chaos like this.
  14. Pumpelche

    Pumpelche Instant Access

    ...and my championate system! To give the one and only best coolest and most eye catching jet trail and projectile trail/explosion to reeining champions and former ones.
     
  15. MeSoSmooth

    MeSoSmooth Member

    No, you are hopelessly clueless. Nobody played or plays LT in TA. And your definition of LT is wrong too.

    Nubcake.
     
  16. Nark

    Nark Instant Access

    T:A has gens, vehicles, base assets and tons of different loadouts. It is not LT. You are delusional if you think T:A has an LT focus.
     
  17. dienasty

    dienasty Member

    I'm sure we're all aware that MA devs were big into Legion :Overdrive (which was an LCTF style game... although they had different armors) but the L just stands for light (stripped down) gameplay . (basically just cappers v LD .. w/o having to worry about defending bases) It was 'popular' more out of necessity (due to low player counts could be played w/ like 3- 6 players per side) .
    T:A was more like tribes LCTF than it was like tribes/(2) base game (not talking classic).

    Base has 2 meanings.. depending on who you talk to .
    There's the beginning style game (slower.. more tactical... vehicle play) (could be taken a step further with mods like renegades, ultra, shifters, etc
    OR
    the 'classic' style but having more equipment to play with (farming & HO, gen rape)

    ( T:A 'had' more of the classic style ... but it was negated the base elements of classic by having the spawn in class .. so the bases were generally not a huge concern (couldn't deny the enemy team by taking out its assets (gens/invs /etc) ; most of the focus was just on flag play [which is why it's compared to LCTF]
    ((side note originally HiRez wanted to do a more open world (planetside like) which would have pleased the base crowd. but the classic players wanted the faster CTF (what T:A was) Had T:A offered BOTH , I think that would have totally been 'Tribes".

    when I suggested MidAir have a base game (way back) the reason was 2 fold.
    1) There are Tribes fan that actually like the originally intended game play , and
    2) the slower game play gives new players a chance to get use to the game and mess around . Before joining a more serious fast paced game..

    or you are in game against vehicles & deployables .. and as a 'low level' free player trying to deal w/ them is a pain/not fun.

    the play/pay to unlock the game does not do MA any favors. Players really need to be able to explore all there is to the game. (so how do you make money?) Unfortunately , you cant charge upfront for a game anymore.... so you have to hook them first.
    than you can charge (either a sub, or ask for donations for servers, or something new ... as well as sell cosmetics, etc)
     
    SADDAM and Lights_Chaos like this.
  18. Lights_Chaos

    Lights_Chaos Member

    Dienasty, that's a great point about the difference in base play. What, exactly, were you hoping Midair's base play would look like?

    Nark, I'm starting to think you don't understand what "in comparison" means. Do you not agree that T:A is more focused on LT than Planetside is? Or that Planetside is more focused on base play than T:A is? Because that was literally my entire point.
     
  19. chemdawg

    chemdawg Private Tester

    T:A = Not LT at all. Point invalid :facepalm:
     
  20. PBDeath

    PBDeath Instant Access

    Spawning outside (or even just a bit too far from the base) every single time on every map is contributing to Midair feeling like some strange LT hybrid. It seems like most everyone is simply waiting the extra time to spawn in their preferred loadout if their teams generators are down. This means one rarely sees a cluster of their teammates taking back the base together and all standing around the generator/inventories repairing them and then getting into loadouts and regrouping. But why do that when you can just spawn into a fully loaded heavy or a flag runner loadout with an energy pack already and just cowboy solo everything?

    I don't think I have played a single map with the flag indoors. Some of the maps have harder to grab outdoor flags, but the bases are so far back from the flagstand that if you go in there you're essentially playing a different game at that point. For reference here think of the Tribes 1 map Raindance. If the generators were down on Raindance the whole team goes in together, takes back the base, repairs and regroups only to pop back out right near their stand. You played as a team in base. Whoever justified all of these current design decisions regarding spawning in loadouts and the bases and flagstands totally glanced over the team aspect of tribes.