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Rabbit

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wildefyr, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. Wildefyr

    Wildefyr Instant Access

    With Rabbit being a confirmed game mode for the next patch, what ruleset do people want to see with it?

    I think a 15 minute timer is probably best for starters, along with increased health for everyone except the flag holder. While I do enjoy a midair immediately knocking the flag out of the carrier's hands I do think that is better suited to team rabbit, but wouldn't be against experimentation.

    For points scoring, I think it should be 1 point for pickup, 1 point for every 5 seconds held, 1 point for carrier kill.
     
  2. Mindflayr

    Mindflayr Moderator Staff Member

    Nice job getting this conversation started. I come from being a Huge fan of Lakrabbit, where it was more of a 1 vs the world combat sequence and not actual flag running. That said I know there are plenty of people who enjoy the more original form of rabbit which emphasized chasing that guy down. Id love to see both versions in the game, likely with "regular" rabbit being the default mode. So in that case, 1 pt for pickup, 1 for carrier kill, and 1 for X seconds of holding is the perfect format as we can then just tweak the how many seconds of holding part until it feels proper. Also, should the carrier get any pts for killing his chasers (This was a No in Prev Tribes excepts in the Lakrabbit form, but in TA I believe the Carrier got Pts for each kill).
     
  3. meph

    meph Member

    guys like kinetic poet, natural, special, fsb-ao, daunt, etc who created team rabbit as a free community mod actually getting credit

    maybe a little credit in map info or some such.


    part of the joy of team rabbit (when it first released, and imho) was that all of the sudden t1 had these interesting "stats, achievements, medals" that were created by the community = speed, height, direction of flag grab / pickup, chaining grabs, ma'ing the carrier, ma'ing ppl while you are the carrier, 'hot-potato timing grabs / passes', etc << all having different point values relative to difficulty. just putting in this interesting medal scoring system really breathed fresh life and nuance into this p basic mod.

    i'd like to see a rabbit gametype with 25+ individual medals. it would not only reward players; it would also funnel the "narrative" of how the game is "supposed" to be played, and how the player can push that envelope. it's amazing how much cosmetic achievements and seeing multiple medals pop up when a player performs "SWITCH AERIAL PASS +10 .. SOARING HIGH AT 400 meters +15 .. BLAZING FAST AT 313 MPH + 10 .. CHAIN TEAM PASS +20" all in the same 2 second play: will do for user experience.

    also of all the gametypes where i don't really mind everyone playing with nofog and happyflag, it's TR. so if those are here to stay, please make TR fun and not an afterthought!

    p.s. ask for sharp's input imo.
     
    Stuby and Whitewhale like this.
  4. RedSpider

    RedSpider Instant Access

    Just keep the game type focused on skiing, midfield flag pickups, and chasing. We don't need to reinvent the wheel on this one.
     
    Whitewhale, Hawk, meph and 2 others like this.
  5. Not-Dare

    Not-Dare Instant Access

    cant *scooting* wait for new unique game modes imagined up by quality idea people @ archetype games, shit ive never seen before or experienced is happening here in this unreal engine mod game i mean tribes-style video game. instead of rabbit mode we're going to have hare mode featuring reclusive people skiing in their server by themselves (because they are too noobie to handle all the new and vibrant gaming ideas) #ESPORTS
     
  6. Pumpelche

    Pumpelche Instant Access

    I'd love the base modus for rabbit!!
     
    Not-Dare likes this.
  7. Mindflayr

    Mindflayr Moderator Staff Member

    Hey Meph, I know this wasnt approched the right way in the previous post response to you, but The Mode being implemented next is not team rabbit, it is individual rabbit. Your feedback is great in regards to Jackpot, the mode that plays like team Rabbit from the previous games, and I fully agree the key to taking Team Rabbit to the next level is to really make a robust scoring system so that people playing feel like they are playing a game within a game, IE they live in the Midair Universe, and Are playing a "Sport Game" within said universe rather than the traditional CTF/Killing game. Giving credit to those who came up with the idea decades ago would be pretty cool if the devs work it in.

    But for the mode this thread is about, there are no teams, intentional passing, etc. Its Everybody vs the Flag Carrier chasing him around the map while the "rabbit" tries to stay alive as long as possible. We should also be getting Jackpot Gametype later, which is akin to the Team Rabbit you are talking about.
     
  8. Schreq

    Schreq Private Tester

    Ok so a bit of rabbit feedback.

    First of all chain is not really needed when you have 1/4 the self boost damage as wolf and spawn near the rabbit. No chain honor rules for rabbit like in ta was dumb but with how rabbit works right now, no chain or way reduced chain damage would be something to consider.

    Another thing is moving the flag which feels a bit too random for whoever gets the flag when you have a lot of people shooting it. I'd like to see way reduced impulse on flags (for all modes even).

    I really like the ability to throw the flag but it has to have drawbacks like losing a point (or the same amount you get for picking up a flag anyway) for tossing it. Self passing is not that big of a deal since you can still shoot your wolf teammates and mess up their flag catch and with the current flag inheritance value it's not ez mode aim straight up and you will always be able to catch it if you don't change your speed.
     
    Melur likes this.
  9. Mindflayr

    Mindflayr Moderator Staff Member

    Chain in rabbit is tricky. Not a fan of it at all, and ppl will get better at rabbit chasing, but even with 8 ppl in the server some of the good runners were able to go a decent amount of time, and that was with a bunch of chainers. Removed entirely you might get players that can hold long enough to get 30+ pts in 1 grab ending the games quickly. I could see toning it down enough that it would be good for finishing/multichaining fast runners, but NOT be option #1 at close range like so many people treated it as last night. Of course an Overheat mechanic may be enough to do the same.

    Moving flag was nuts with 5+ shooting it. Reduced Impulse FTW. I agree with applying it to LCTF & Base also.

    Flag tossing I cant really see the benefits of other than it looking cool. Momentary Invulnerability I guess from Chain, but you are right, it should just cost a point so the net gain is 0.
     
  10. Schreq

    Schreq Private Tester

    Being able to toss just gives you options, like denying points or ending endless scrambles by thrust grabbing and tossing it out etc. Only reason to remove it is to stop griefing by continously gaining points by tossing and grabbing which would be solved by adding a point penalty.
     
  11. Jon_Osc

    Jon_Osc Quality Assurance Staff Member

    Seconding:
    • Reduce flag movement from explosions
    • Remove or penalize rabbit tossing the flag

    On chaingun:

    I think it's needed. The "one guy going supersonic while everyone else tries to MA him" gameplay doesn't really appeal to me. I wouldn't mind a system where it deals less damage against players with less points, but that seems a bit convoluted and weird to explain.​

    On points:
    • I'd award points for damage instead of kills
    • Increase the bonus for non chaingun midair kills
    • Award some points for non lethal midairs
    • Rabbit should get points for damage and midairs on wolves
     
  12. Schreq

    Schreq Private Tester

    K out, spawn close to rabbit, diskjump, spam rabbits landing point with gl. How this rabbit version is designed it's totally not needed. Keeping chain will just result in it being one big chain fest and people will complain and play with their own honour rules which is dumb as well. Overheat would also hardly do anything when you get focus chained by 3+ players right after grabbing.
     
    Whitewhale and The Weirdo like this.
  13. Verna

    Verna Instant Access

    I played a lot of T2 lakrabbit and the chaingun was not allowed (makes sense). The only problem lakrabbit had was that people could pick up lots of speed and run around the entire map forever. This usually led to a warning/kick as people were told to not do this, but I'd prefer to not have honor rules like that. Maybe after X seconds the rabbit regains their energy more slowly? Or the rabbit takes slow self damage if they're too far away from everyone else?
     
    joe likes this.
  14. PROJ

    PROJ Private Tester

    Rabbit kind of needs cg because when someone manages to get breakaway speed it's really hard to stop them otherwise. Part of being good at rabbit is being able to grab the flag in motion and separate from the pack while it's bouncing around. It does get a little silly with a ton of players, but that's because it's not really designed around that many people at once. You also have to remember that a majority of players struggle with killing moving players and they'll never do anything if you force them to MA the rabbit.

    I would like to maybe experiment with the rabbit taking more damage from weapons the longer he holds the flag to prevent someone from just skiing around the map endlessly against hopelessly outmatched wolves.
     
    Ont and joe like this.
  15. joe

    joe Instant Access

    +1, it is far too easy on minora or crystalline to grab the flag and just ski a loop on the outskirts of the map. this is particularly aggravating for low player counts and i could see it killing rabbit pubs pretty quick, or causing players to avoid certain maps.

    same kind of idea as above but this version doesn't reward any one for good play, rather it penalizes the rabbit for doing what is kind of part of the game. imo you should still have to be able to aim and chase a bit to track down a fast rabbit.

    proj's solution still requires and rewards players for being able to aim and chase a bit, while giving them a bit of a buff to prevent people from skiing a loop until they reach 50.
     
  16. PROJ

    PROJ Private Tester

    I'd also like to suggest maybe bonus points for stuff like MAs to encourage people to go for style kills and incorporate some of the lak rabbit stuff into the mode
     
    Ont and The Weirdo like this.
  17. Mindflayr

    Mindflayr Moderator Staff Member

    Remember this will be Basic Rabbit Gametype developed around Running/Chasing and the CG Belongs but I would love to see it toned down to maybe 50% damage by default.

    As far as a Lakrabbit style mode, No CG Makes sense. T2 Lakrabbit also had a vote for a mode where if the Rabbit Didnt kill someone for like 15 seconds it would give them a 5 second countdown and then they died. This prevented running for grief purposes on top of the 0 pts for running. Assuming we will already be able to use server flags to control the weapons, we just need a server flag tied to something like that to prevent running/force dueling. (I think it was called Duel mode).

    I think this is a Fantastic Idea. You can intuitively tie that into the mode, potentially using sound or HUD elements to notify the Rabbit/wolves as the damage scales. This to me also adds to the idea of rabbiting as it gets harder and harder to stay alive, and I could see even giving bonus pts or at least accolades/awards for hitting certain time benchmarks for holding the flag.

    Not a fan of rewarding cg damage at all. Honestly not even a fan of giving a point for killing the rabbit with CG. I look at CG in rabbit as a necessary evil to finish off, but would rather everyones primary choice for killing the rabbit be explosive weapons. If you got no pts for a cg kill, ppl would only CG the rabbit when they had to instead of the whole group hosing him immediatly rather than even trying for MAs. Id probablyu lump the current form of Hand nades into that category as well.

    If the Above Changes were made Id love Something like:
    1 Pt per X Seconds Flag Held - Bonus Pts at 30s/60s (or every 30s/60s or something)
    1 Pt For Flag Grab
    -1 Pt for Flag Toss
    1 Pt for Kill [Both Rabbit and Wolves] - Excludes CG / Hand Nade
    1 Pt for MA (Ring, Plasma, GL) - If Possible Bonus 1-2 Pts for Long Range MAs)


    The point system could go through tons of iterations, and maybe increase from small numbers to give more variability (rather than counting in 1s), but lets work from where we are at.

    At Minimum, CG needs to stay but be modified somehow, as well as a way to stop a good runner from just looping to 50 pts quickly. However it IS FUN right now as long as its not 8 CG whores or a Looping runner.
     
  18. BugsPray

    BugsPray Midair Developer Staff Member

    Right now a midair kill awards 1pt. Interesting ideas. We will iterate on this with some of the simpler ideas (easier to both implement and explain) for next patch.
     
  19. Mindflayr

    Mindflayr Moderator Staff Member

    Nice. I thought it did, but what you currently have is someone grabs, I Midair them (get 0) and then someone CGs the final health and gets 1 pt for that kill. The MA shouldnt have to kill to get that Pt, as if it does you already will get 2 pts instead of 1.
     
  20. XU1

    XU1 Instant Access

    Rabbit is fun! Once we get sick of playing kyro 3 times in one night we can switch to rabbit :) we have that option now.

    Would be cool if midair kills in rabbit would drop out ten flags instead of one. Nine flags being fake, and one flag being real. It would stop the spam upon picking up the flag, and would look cool :)