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Spawn in Loadout vs Core Spawning

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gorthaur, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Gorthaur

    Gorthaur Instant Access

    Just saw the patch notes about the spawn in loadout servers you are testing out. I look forward to trying it out but wanted to remind people of another alternative that I favor that you could also test. :)

    Core spawning - naked spawn but in your armor of choice. No packs, grenades as belt item. If you select a light loadout when spawning you spawn in light spawn gear. If you select medium you spawn in medium spawn gear. If heavy, heavy spawn gear.

    Light spawn loadout is Ring launcher, Blaster/Grenade launcher, Chaingun.
    Medium spawn loadout is Ring launcher, Chaingun, Grenade launcher/blaster.
    Heavy spawn loadout is Mortar, Ring launcher, Chaingun.

    The philosophy is that lights are for chasing and capping, mediums for midfield, deployables and heavy killing, and heavies for bombardment, Hof and base camping. Lights no longer need blaster because you can spawn in medium or heavy to fight heavies camping your base. Blaster is more suited to low speed dueling which is a medium role.

    I wish there were a few more weapons to work with to make these loadouts better though. You need some better weapons to incentivize you to go to inventories and loot enemies more. Shocklance, repurpose blaster to not use energy and be the premiere low speed finishing/dueling weapon > chaingun, shotgun, autoshotgun (medium weapon) or add some weaker versions of chaingun you spawn with such as pistol and smg for example. See below.

    Personally my ideal would be something like:

    Light Spawn: Ring, Grenade launcher, pistol (projectile weapon with small clip and higher spread depending on fire rate)
    Medium Spawn: Ring, Shotgun or equivalent close range weapon, SMG (projectile weapon with larger clip than pistol and a bit less spread)
    Heavy Spawn: Mortar, Ring, Chaingun (medium weapon, full wind up before any shots fired, no clips but overheat increases spread)
     
    LM SpydeR and SeymourGore like this.
  2. ramses0

    ramses0 Member

    Decent, honest ideas there... I like where your heart is on it. What do you think about basically what you're describing, but true: "spawn in loadout" (ie: with armor + weapons but no packs + grenades)

    imho, any medium or heavy should 100% spawn from an inventory station when gens are up. It TRULY makes sense as an evolution of T2-play. Base inventory stations are 100% for getting into big-a$$ armor, and if you're in big-a$$ armor you're usually not running routes (and if you were running routes, you'd basically light => heavy => inv + route).

    n00b: "lights spawn outside w/ energy pack when gens are up, heavies spawn inside w/ packs when gens are up"

    n00b: "lights spawn outside w/ no packs when gens are down, heavies spawn inside / outside w/ no packs when gens are down"

    It _really_ associates that idea of: "heavy armor you get from the base" and "free packs you get from the gens"

    pr0: ...when gens are up LCTF is in full effect. HOFs and Deployers basically pop out instantly (and that's not necessarily a bad thing, to get to a solid prickly defense like a nascar crew immediately on spawn... 4x lights spawning outside and beginning cap runs, 4x med engineer deployers spawning in INV and farming, 4x heavies have to decide if they want to wait for the 4 mediums to spawn or if they want to suit up light and run to the inventory stations).

    pr0: When gens are down, LCTF is nerfed unless you have inv's near outdoor spawn points. When gens are down, you still get a bunch of clearing potential (heavies w/ mortars spawning in the base inv's). When INV's are down, you have heavies spawning outside w/ no packs, then they have to go pick up a pack (from outside inv?) or fix the base, clear the base, etc. When INV's and gens are down, and you don't have outside deployable inv's, then you're in the vicious circle: "base wrecking"

    Based on a the briefest of play w/ Spawn-CTF, I think the above tweaks give the "game theory feel" about penalties, advantages, and importance of the base.

    1) N00bs spawning w/o packs honestly won't even notice them.

    2) Getting semi-organized, it gives you the "medic" role to deploy outside inv's near outside spawn points (so even if gens are downs your LCTF offense is cruising!).

    3) Mediums and Heavies _spawning in base_ both slows down HO offense, as well as improves base defense, and makes _the game_ clear. Armor comes from bases. Go to base for armor, or "K" and you'll come out of the base in armor (and if you don't have BASE INV's then you don't have armor... keeps the importance of THE BASE fore-front).

    4) If Medium + Heavy comes from base inv's only, it gives a natural time/spawn -limit based on the repair-ability status of your base. If your base is REKT and you're spawning outside (b/c you're a heavy broski w/ no packs) you are strongly incentivized to go repair some inv's, repair the gens, etc. and deploy a few outdoor inv's so you can clear base easier.

    I think the above is my final stance on the current evolution of base. I was a big proponent of the "ammo penalty" but I think the above (pack-penalty + base inv's) is slightly clearer and absolutely nails the tradeoffs on pubbing, pugging, fun, and organized play. Base remains super important (gens == packs, invs == armor), it rewards self-sufficiency (outdoor invs near spawns) and lets farmers / home D get going just a touch quicker to compensate for 200kph cappers!
     
  3. ramses0

    ramses0 Member

    Summarizing:

    spawn() {
    --->if Light:
    --->--->spawn_outside()

    --->else:
    --->--->if AnyInvUp():
    --->--->--->spawn_inside( some_inv )
    --->--->--->disable( some_inv, '10s' )
    --->--->else:
    --->--->--->spawn_outside()


    --->if GensUp:
    --->--->give_packs()
    }


    ...basic LCTF works 100% when gens are up.

    ...farmers job #1 is put deployable inv's at spawn locations (generator insurance) and turret-farm flag.

    ...base defense is 90% job of heavies / mediums (which is they job they want to play anyway). They try not to die, but if their base is "ok" they spawn in base and try to clear it or take their "baby route" over to turret-farm flag.

    ...base offense (heavies trying to wreck enemy bases) depends on having base defense set up pretty good (4 inv's up, gens up, etc) so you can spawn with packs and stuff, get in a transport and crash.

    I would encourage discussion on this topic, but I think this small-ish tweak to Base would do wonders!